alabamagirl,
In my opinion, no. It makes no sense for a person to be pro-black and marry someone from another race. A pro-black person would want to marry another black person and have only beautiful black kids to continue the bloodline. What kind of pro-black person would want kids who look half of what they are? It just makes no sense. There are mulattos who actually look completely white, so our genes are not always dominant. I just can't have kids who don't look black. I'd rather them be albino.

You would rather you child have albinism? I think you better 'read up' and becareful what you say or wish on you offspring in future!
Albinism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Lage sections of the african dispora have some degree of non african blood in them. be it white, indian or chinese. Many afrian carribeans, etc have a mixture of east indian, chinese and eurpean!

African ameriacans, can have native american and european genes. are they all still condidered black africans?

Some of them (AAs, ACs) ''look half of what they are?'' and some mixed race people look like both their parents are african.!Surely how you identify is more important. What if that biriacal person has a child with a afrian, do you consider the child african?

Gmahogany.
I would submit that it is the long OVERDUE questioning/analysis of such unions/predilections and how they may or may not have AFFECTED/AFFECT our movements/agendas, fits into the NEW/TABOO BREAKING category, particularly as it relates to the "sacred cows" of our movements.

There's nothing wrong with questioning how 'unions' or may not have AFFECTED/AFFECT our movements/agendas, but that isnt what's happening here.

Some are questioning 'blackness' and 'motives' because of their own insecure need to bolster their egos.

It reminds of when certain Negroes feel it 's their duty to run up in our faces lecturing us about how we should be more accepting of other people,read white people,(or some other shit that we ALREADY do in abundance

OOOH! He said negroes! Shock horror!I
I personally aint saying be accepting of anyone, just stop bitching on about white people. Do you think the issues in our community are purely down to white people? Just what kind of power do you think they have? They can't do jack Shite without our complience...so it's kind of important that we are all on the same page now....isn't it?

Everyone of them could vanish into thin air and we would still have issues to sort out. So this constant mentioning 'YT' is done by some to prove how 'pro daft' they are. I only mention other races insofar as it is neccessary to prove a point, or take the piss, but unlike many here, I don't think white people are gods.

Or those Negroes who like to run up talking that brand new second hand 'conservative"/pull yourself up by your own bootstraps shit to us,(actually they usually go talk that shit TO white folks ABOUT us,lol), like they're hitting up on something new and novel.

OOOH! He said negroes, AGAIN! Shock horror! Are you getting paid everytime you say negro or something?

So let me get this straight, everyone being responsible for themselves and their actions is conservative thinking? I'm sure the many afircan authors who have sought to promote people taking personal pride in themselves will be surprised to find that they are closet 'conservatives'. and that they are talking shit!
I suppose your hard hitting scheme to make a change involves saying 'YT' and 'NEGROES' on the internet! Wow, revolutionary!

Che Chevara must be kicking himself that the internet wasn't around in his day, all he would of had to do was racially insult his own people (cubans) and everything would change for the better! lol!

No it's not new, but apparently it is not being understood by many. If it were, we wouldn't be in the position we are in...would we? So if it needs to be mentioned again and again and again so be it.

It's kind of like those here who in one post say ''We should be united'' ''then in the vary next post say ''Look at that coon'' or ''those Negroes blah blah...'' They clearly don't understand the depths of why we are in the position we are or why they react in the way they do. And so throw around little phrases and half heartd platitudes for a post then revert back to their ignorance!

I do not however, have much patience for "intellectuals", who don't have enough sense to know the limits of abstract thinking,

There are no limits to abstact thinking, The mind is a muscle and benifits from exercise. The futher you stretch it, the more flexable it becomes.

at the expense of more practical/flesh and blood realities/experiences,(and there are MANY intellectuals who fit that description

I can't speak for others, but I know my posts are practical! But as with all practical matters there has to be theory proping it up.

I also don't have much patience for people who feel compelled to play the Devil's Advocate, for no good reason,
There's allways a good reason to play 'devils advocate', it throws new spin on an issue and helps you to strenghen your beliefs or change them to a more practical one.

Imagine of group of Jews sitting around discussing the Holocaust and it's effects, and some Jewish "intellectual" wants to bust up in the conversation and say: " Umm yeah I just wanted to articulate the abstract/esoteric pros/good points of Hitler's Final Solution(particularly the part about the ovens), lest we miss some grand opportunity for Intellectual exploration/musing/pondering. He'll be lucky if he makes out wherever he is, alive.

Every other race does this, check out some jewish sites, there's (loads on the principles of The Final Solution) It's all 'well and good' sitting about wallowing in self pity, but at some point you have to annalys the thinking and motives of those who would attempt to hold you down, the thoughts and feelings of the community and your own thoughts and feelings. We discuss many view points on slavery and the principles of racism. How does that hurt. No movement will progress on action alone, there has to be a firm foundation to build on.

I think thats what Neferkare means when he mentioned teaching our kids to be cultural critics.

PS the 'ovens' were only used to dispose of the bodies not kill jews.

As to the helter skelter comments made about the Nation of Islam.
I'm not intrested in 'Islamic Studies'
It's not an african religon and was forced on african and africans. It has little benifit for africans as a whole so I don't understand why people seem to think that adapting what little african culture is left to an arabian culture(praticularly when these people are so resistant to europeans doing this!) would be a benifit to us and our movement in ANY way!

That's kind of anti pro african...don't you think?

Either way, I have no intrest in NOI or orthodox islam, it's just another distraction for us!

FIRST thing he (Malcomr X) did was create the Organization of AFro American Unity. A completely SECULAR organization. Why? Because, like his TEACHER, his first instinct/concern was ALWAYS going to be Black folks and he didn't want RELIGION to be a reason for BLACK FOLKS to be falling out with each other. His stance was I'm a Muslim, tha'ts not gonna change, You may be a Christian, but we're not catching hell because of our religions, we're catching hell cause we're Black, so let's put the religion aside and get together and do this.

So what he and you are saying in a long winded way is 'We don't have time to be arguing about crap...let's start moving forward!'' HHHmmm! That's the subject of all my posts really, It's funny how people will rant and rave and come off with all manner of militantcy but they eventually come back to the reality of the situation. WE DONT HAVE TIME FOR CR@P!

So, as I stated MUCH earlier in this thread. My stance was NEVER that the ONLY thing that will make me question a "leader's" pro Black ness is if they marry outside their race,)

While Kujufu used various black politians as examples the actual title of the thread is '' a question: can you be pro Black and still be with a partner from another culture?'' So my posts are directed at the common person. I have little intrest in leaders because they have a bad habbit of getting killed or letting you down. No matter how go a leader, he can only work with the materials he has, and at this moment in time, those materials are all pulling in differnt directions. Any leader that could effect change under those circumstances should be headmaster of Hogworts!

As for the sarcasm towards 'black interlectuals' made by some, if a persons religion is 'thug life' and they practise religiously I can totally understand their contempt for black interlectuals!

stick-upKid
Yep the debate has gone on long enough.

And BTW, to anyone that made a long ass post or quoted a long-ass post - I didn't read ya!

No sure why you bothered posting a post to say you didn't read a post, but no one is holding a gun to your head. If your intrested read if not don't, no need to mention it though!

Many a negro has used the pro black wagon to advance their white selves - pro black and white spouse is a self explanatory contradiction - the word pro is not a compromise.

[size="5"]There's nothing wrong with questioning how 'unions' or may not have AFFECTED/AFFECT our movements/agendas, but that isnt what's happening here.

Some are questioning 'blackness' and 'motives' because of their own insecure need to bolster their egos.

The lionshare of comments in this debate not only centered around Black leaders, but MLK, in particular, so where you get the idea that anyone was overly concerned with what regular,everyday Black folks do in this matter, as impacting on OUR agenda/struggle, is beyond me. Furthermore, I would submit that regular old Black folks,(at least in AMerica), don't struggle with this issue. It's TYPICALLY the so called leaders//intellectual/"pro Black crew set that seem to be more likely to be retarded on this issue. A friend of mine has a whole theory about why that is, and the TRUE underlying motivations of many so called "pro-Black" types. I'll get into that at another time, possibly.



[size="5"]OOOH! He said negroes! Shock horror!I
I personally aint saying be accepting of anyone, just stop bitching on about white people. Do you think the issues in our community are purely down to white people? Just what kind of power do you think they have? They can't do jack Shite without our complience...so it's kind of important that we are all on the same page now....isn't it?

Everyone of them could vanish into thin air and we would still have issues to sort out. So this constant mentioning 'YT' is done by some to prove how 'pro daft' they are. I only mention other races insofar as it is neccessary to prove a point, or take the piss, but unlike many here, I don't think white people are gods.
[color="Red"]

I'm a she, and who here is "bitching on about white people"? Who here has stated that the issues in our communities are "purely down to white people? You are ASSUMING that just because there are Black people who think that "pro Black" leaders/advocates ought to marry/date Black folks, that WE must be obsessed with white folks? Interesting twist of logic. We're obsessed with Crackers, not the so called "pro Black" people on a "pro Black" Board, who are distressed and disturbed that others don't share their predilection/preoccupation with dating/marrying/phucking white folks or advocating the dating/phucking/marrying of white folks,lol.

Once again, I'm always amused by Negroes who swear they are schooling the lowly, heathen Black masses when they are SO not. No one here is CONSTANTLY mentioning white people. To the extent that whites and other races are being mentioned, it probably has to do with the fact that the title of the thread is: Can U be Pro Black and have a White or non Black partner", or something like that. Makes it kind of difficult NOT to mention whites and other non Blacks,lol.

/COLOR]
OOOH! He said negroes, AGAIN! Shock horror! Are you getting paid everytime you say negro or something?

Oooh, I'm a She, and no I'm not getting paid to say Negroes. I just think it's UTTERLY appropos in certain instances. The same way I think words like CRACKER and ******, are utterly appropos in certain instances. You got a problem with that? If so, I'll be sure and INCREASE my usage of the words in question,lol.

So let me get this straight, everyone being responsible for themselves and their actions is conservative thinking? I'm sure the many afircan authors who have sought to promote people taking personal pride in themselves will be surprised to find that they are closet 'conservatives'. and that they are talking shit!
I suppose your hard hitting scheme to make a change involves saying 'YT' and 'NEGROES' on the internet! Wow, revolutionary!

Err, no genius. It's NOT conservative thinking. It's pretty much always been the DEFAULT stance of Black folks, in America. It's the same shit that Elijah Muhhamad and the NOI and other Black groups have been preaching for damn near a hundred years. More than that, if you throw in people like Booker T. Washington. My point was, that to this certain ilk of NEGRO, it's conservative thinking, they feel compelled to allign themselves with the white Conservative RACIST agendaS, and come talk shit to the rest of us, like they discovered the wheel or something.

First of all, I don't use the term YT, so I don't know where you got that from. My white person word of choice is CRACKER, get it straight. I don't use any of the words I use, because I think they are "revolutionary". I use them because again, I think they are UTTERLY appropos, in some instances. Beyond that, They succeed in getting certain NEGROES panties in a bunch, for what reason I do not know. So apparently they generate some kind of power/effect. Who knew? LOL.

Che Chevara must be kicking himself that the internet wasn't around in his day, all he would of had to do was racially insult his own people (cubans) and everything would change for the better! lol!

I'm not racially insulting my own people. You haven't ever seen me in INSULT mode. The way you're having a hissy fit about words like NEGRO, I reckon you'd have a out and out nervous breakdown, if I REALLY took it there,lol.

No it's not new, but apparently it is not being understood by many. If it were, we wouldn't be in the position we are in...would we? So if it needs to be mentioned again and again and again so be it.

Again, I have no problem with it being mentioned(although I hardly think the people on this Board are the appropriate target audience, a little presumptous and preaching to the choir-esque, wouldn't you say?), groups like the NOI talk about that very thing INCESSANTLY, as well as implement PROGRAMS with that ethos that have produced RESULTS. I respect them to the fullest. The difference is, they don't CONDESCEND to Black folks and have their tongue up white people's behind, while doing it. UNLIke some other NEGROES who shall remain nameless.

It's kind of like those here who in one post say ''We should be united'' ''then in the vary next post say ''Look at that coon'' or ''those Negroes blah blah...'' They clearly don't understand the depths of why we are in the position we are or why they react in the way they do. And so throw around little phrases and half heartd platitudes for a post then revert back to their ignorance!

I'm very much for unity, but I'm not for unity with people who don't share my priorities/agenda/core outlook/beliefs. I don't give a damn if they are as Black as the street pavement. It's not necessary. There is no such thing as that kind of unity anyway. Groups of like minded people with the same interests/agenda get together and act, other folks come along and get on board when they see which way the wind is blowing. That's true of everything from the AMerican Revolution to the Civil Right's Movement.

There are no limits to abstact thinking, The mind is a muscle and benifits from exercise. The futher you stretch it, the more flexable it becomes.

There are limits to the PRACTICAL APPLICATION of abstract thinking/theories. Of course that only matters if you're actually concerned with PRACTICAL application and results, which a lot of intellectuals are not. which is why they render themselves utterly useless in many instances. You're right, there are no limits to abstract/ivory tower thinking, as long as it stays in the ivory tower. That's where some folks get it twisted.

I can't speak for others, but I know my posts are practical! But as with all practical matters there has to be theory proping it up.

If that is so, than you should not have taken my comments as being directed towards you. Who the cap fits.......


[size="5"]There is allways a good reason to play 'devils advocate', it throws new spin on an issue and helps you to strenghen your beliefs or change them to a more practical one.

Nope, I disagree. There is not always a good reason to advocate for the Devil. No sane,self respecting Jewish person should ever be saying: "Well, Hitler had a point",lol.


Every other race does this, check out some jewish sites, there's (loads on the principles of The Final Solution) It's all 'well and good' sitting about wallowing in self pity, but at some point you have to annalys the thinking and motives of those who would attempt to hold you down, the thoughts and feelings of the community and your own thoughts and feelings. We discuss many view points on slavery and the principles of racism. How does that hurt. No movement will progress on action alone, there has to be a firm foundation to build on.

I don't have to check out Jewish sites. I am quite familiar with Jews and how they do, and it doesn't REMOTELY resemble what Negroes do, ESPECIALLY in reference to their enemies and what was done to them. If you find a few talking the same kind of simple shit that you quite often hear US talking, you better believe they are viewed as a SELF HATING Jew, by the majority and treated as such. If they are too VOCAL in popping that junk, they might find themselves in some physical danger. They don't pussyfoot around like we do. Ask rap group PUblic Enemy or their Jewish music producer/record label owner Rick Rubin, who ALL got death threats from groups like the Jewish Defense League, back in the day because of a FACTUALLY correct comment, made by a group member, that didn't sit well with the Jewish community. Not only was PE in danger, but their Jewish benefactor was gonna get some too, if he didn't make the right decision, so don't try to sell me on this" Jews handle things the same way we do, bullshit". Too much evidence to the contrary.

Analyzing the thinking and motives of those who would attempt to hold u down is strategic and necessary, that is not the same as what NEGROES have a propensity for doing, or what was being done by some in this thread. Not even close.


I think thats what Neferkare means when he mentioned teaching our kids to be cultural critics.

No problem with the cultural critic thing. Big problem with "pro Black" advocate/leader/spokesperson dating/marrying non Black. Simple as.

PS the 'ovens' were only used to dispose of the bodies not kill jews.

I didn't SPECIFY what the ovens were used for, I said they were part of the FINAL SOLUTION, and they were. If you are planning to engage in mass killings/genocide, you would have to think about disposal of the bodies, no? That would have to be part of the masterplan, no? You wouldn't wait till you had millions of corpses piled up to start thinking about, hmmm, now what to do, what to do........

As to the helter skelter comments made about the Nation of Islam.
I'm not intrested in 'Islamic Studies'
It's not an african religon and was forced on african and africans. It has little benifit for africans as a whole so I don't understand why people seem to think that adapting what little african culture is left to an arabian culture(praticularly when these people are so resistant to europeans doing this!) would be a benifit to us and our movement in ANY way!

I don't care if you are interested in Islamic Studies, I'm not either. I was advising you to stop talking out of your ass about the Nation of Islam, Elijah Muhhamad, because it was obvious from your comments that you don't know what you are talking about. I didn't say that taking on someone else's religion is the OPTIMUM way for us to handle things, but if you ARE going to do that, at least be smart enough to ADAPT the shit to YOUR group and THEIR situation. Muhhamad was smart enough to do that AT LEAST(which sets him apart from most other Black religious leaders throughout the world who just wholesale swallow any religion that blows their way), and because of that the NOI has been a benefit to Black folks in the U.S. If they hadn't done anything but give us Malcolm, they'd be worth their weight in gold, but they have had tangible EFFECTS on many parts of the AFrican AMerican community throughout the years, which is why they tend to be well regarded, even if most don't subscribe to a lot of their tenets.

That's kind of anti pro african...don't you think?

Again, read above paragraph and stop projecting your issues/experience with Islam as practiced OUTSIDE the U.S. with what was/is practiced here. Totally different animal.

Either way, I have no intrest in NOI or orthodox islam, it's just another distraction for us!

That is your prerogative, but if you make untrue statements/characterizations about the NOI, I'll be inclined to correct you.


[/color]
[size="5"]So what he and you are saying in a long winded way is 'We don't have time to be arguing about crap...let's start moving forward!'' HHHmmm! That's the subject of all my posts really, It's funny how people will rant and rave and come off with all manner of militantcy but they eventually come back to the reality of the situation. WE DONT HAVE TIME FOR CR@P!

Having a discussion about whether a "pro Black" person who is married to/dating a non Black person, who is purporting to speak/lead/advocate for me, will be accepted by me is not "ARGUING ABOUT CRAP". It's fundamental, strategic and commonsensical. Furthermore, there is no argument. That's a done deal for me, what others do is of no concern to me. Now arguing about me or anyone else choosing to use the word NEGRO or CRACKER, or YT, on a message board DOES constitute, ARGUING ABOUT CRAP,LOL.

[],)

While Kujufu used various black politians as examples the actual title of the thread is '' a question: can you be pro Black and still be with a partner from another culture?'' So my posts are directed at the common person. I have little intrest in leaders because they have a bad habbit of getting killed or letting you down. No matter how go a leader, he can only work with the materials he has, and at this moment in time, those materials are all pulling in differnt directions. Any leader that could effect change under those circumstances should be headmaster of Hogworts!

Kunjufu mentioned politicians, and a large part of the thread centered around Martin Luther King, SPECIFICALLY. What everyday Black folks do in that regard is not as pertinent for a number of reasons. First of all, how would you even KNOW?. There are probably folks on this Board right now, hugged up with someone white,lol. (boy that would explain a lot), anyway, we have no way of knowing that, so we have to be talking about "pro Black" folks who we would be working with as part of some kind of organization, or who are leaders of organizations that we lend our support to, who have the ability to AFFECT us in some way. Not the RANDOM Black person we see on the subway train, or in the grocery store,lol.

Beyond that, as I said before, the MASSES of Black folks,(in America at least), don't struggle with this issue. It tends to be a given or go without saying. It's those "self proclaimed Pro Black and INtellectual types", who are going to usually be the problem, and as I said, my friend has a good theory about why that is. Actually, a well respected Board member, my brother, MIghty Mos Def, articulated a similar theory, at least a year ago, on another thread. I think they are both on to something.....


As for the sarcasm towards 'black interlectuals' made by some, if a persons religion is 'thug life' and they practise religiously I can totally understand their contempt for black interlectuals!
[/quote]

Thug life? Really? Is it that serious?LOL.

I don't have contempt for Black intellectuals, as I stated before, I can dwell in that realm. I just know it's limitations and blind spots. I can discuss any "intellectuals" of any race, break them down, critique them, highlight their strong points, and pick their weak points apart, be they Black: Dr. Cornel West, Dr. Michael Eric Dyson, WEB Dubois, or white: Descarte, John Stuart Mills, Nietchze,sp?, or Christopher Hitchens,(to bring it up to modern times for a moment). You know what they say about what happens when u ASS U ME,lol.

Gmahogany.
The lionshare of comments in this debate not only centered around Black leaders, but MLK, in particular, so where you get the idea that anyone was overly concerned with what regular,everyday Black folks do in this matter, as impacting on OUR agenda/struggle, is beyond me.So here's my question if you like, can you really state that you're race conscious, Race proud and then not be with someone of the same race?9

Kujufus comments were:-
Is it possible to be PRO BLACK and have a partner who is not BLACK?
[note to forum, this is not a bashing thread, nor an IR thread its a simple question about what is meant by race pride!!]
My view for what its worth that it is a total contradiction to say you're race proud, and then not be with some of your own race...am i wrong?

The fact that some may of mistook what he was asking, or that some may to wondered down other paths doesn't change the original question.

A friend of mine has a whole theory about why that is, and the TRUE underlying motivations of many so called "pro-Black" types. I'll get into that at another time, possibly.
Look forward to it!

I'm a she,

Sorry, I did ASSUME, you were male, hence the 'tude' of my post.

..who here is "bitching on about white people"?
Look around the forum.

You are ASSUMING that just because there are Black people who think that "pro Black" leaders/advocates ought to marry/date Black folks, that WE must be obsessed with white folks? Interesting twist of logic. We're obsessed with Crackers, not the so called "pro Black" people on a "pro Black" Board, who are distressed and disturbed that others don't share their predilection/preoccupation with dating/marrying/phucking white folks or advocating the dating/phucking/marrying of white folks,lol.)

Hhhhmmm, Intresting, but don't you think it would be more productive to be 'obsessed' with our situation? Obsessing over crackers, really isn't much help to us, unless to need to release some pent up pressure.

Once again, I'm always amused by Negroes who swear they are schooling the lowly, heathen Black masses when they a