Aryek said:'Also, as I said, just about everything that you've had to complain about psychiatry can be extended to every branch of medicine. See a disease, don't try to figure out why it works, just 'em the drugs and move on. That's medicine, okay. I brought up the issue with black people and cancer to point out the mistakes that other fields are making not to say that psychiatrists are over diagnosing black people with ADHD, lol.

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Think your argument getting a bit weak there sis, even though I see where you are going but glossing over important differences..

Hmmm, psychology is both a science and a philosophy. I called you biased because you while you have no problem criticizing the philosophical aspects of the field, you can't quite take the final step and argue that the works on neuroscientists and biological psychologists is not scientific.

Not true. Reread. To make it clearer I do indeed regard such research and endeavours in to neuroscience and physical tangible aspects of a brain as scientific in approach.

Since these fields are what give psychology it's scientific backbone, I'd be more inclined to listen to you if you had a valid arugment against their methods. I gave you leeway to vent your spleen against these disciplines and yet you couldn't take the bait, why not?

Because they're very new relative to the whole field and an approach that doesn't make it's way down to the doc or clinic facing real patients. Perhaps decades in the future following such work I'll change my mind but for now, the philosophy and speculation rules the day masquerading as the science. Usually the tangible is mixed in with gobbledygook to form a psuedoscience that it's clear the people don't know what they're talking about. Mixing a lil truth in with a bag of nonsense has always historically caused the most damage.

The fact is that it's easy to attack the theoretical aspects of any field as not being scientific. By and large the works of Skinner, Jaung et al. are all very much based on speculation. Psychologists are quite aware of this, this is why their theories are viewed as just that, theories, not laws.

You're incorrect in that people are aware and you need clarification of the scientific definitions of laws and theories. You seem here to fall into the trap of seeing "theory" as "idea" with the implications that brings. Gravity is a theory. Plate tectonics and the Krebs cycle are theories. Set theory and number theory are theories. A THEORY in science is not a hypothesis (speculation). It is a working set of rules that govern how a particular science works. A body of knowledge. Think of Music theory. Notes, keys, bars etc... not hypothesis but rules which define structure. A law has no more or less scientific value than a theory. A law describes a small set of variables in a mathmatic way with a proof in equation form usually.


We worship them, as you put it, because they are the founders of the field and without them, we wouldn't know where to begin to figure out the whys.

I contend that it's because of them and their wild nonsense they don't know anything.

Freud'sl theory (wild imaginings and speculations) sis no longer accepted in the field as there is no way to test the majority of the things that he theorized. Yet even as psychologist have moved away from Freud, you people still can't seem to let him go, lol.

Because he serves as a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Sure he's discredited now but for nearly a century his foolish led and directed the whole field and he was regarded as a demigod. Who knows how many countless people were harmed and fleeced on his behalf. It's the type of popularist thinking and willingness to jump on bandwagons like his that hasn't changed. Sure he might be a joke today but...

As for Skinner, his branch of "qucakery" has lent itself very well to the works of neuroscience and biopsychology. Hence, he is not going anywhere.

Precisely my point Aryek. 10 years from now he'll be a joke too and we'll wonder how it was taken so seriously.

I'm sorry but you can't zone in on the theoretical branch of a field and attack it as unscientific and yet have nothing to say about the two prominent parts of the field that is dedicated to testing and falsify these theories. You say that you don't try to find out why drugs work, yet that is exactly what these two fields are doing, so what gives? Answered this above. You can't mix fantasy theory with practical science and apply that in seriousness. So long as the fantasy rules the day it undermines the actual science being done.

Also, as I said, just about everything that you've had to complain about psychiatry can be extended to every branch of medicine. See a disease, don't try to figure out why it works, just 'em the drugs and move on. That's medicine, okay. I brought up the issue with black people and cancer to point out the mistakes that other fields are making not to say that psychiatrists are over diagnosing black people with ADHD, lol. Again with the misquotes after you've been corrected. Is it purposeful I wonder? Strawman tactics Aryek?

Now I'm going to be real here. Over a year ago my cousin was sectioned and treated. Since then he's been in and out and had many different diagnosises. When he's at his most lucid and coherent is when he's tranq'd out on various drugs proscribed for things he hasn't been diagnosed for. The doctors follow my uncles lead (his father) in thinking of treatments and diagnosises, seemingly after exhausting all sorts of IDEAS of their own. This is all raggedy. A few months back they seemed convinced they knew what was up and declared things set and released him again. Only for him last week to be sectioned yet again this time level 3 whatever that means. If you think I'm making this up Kunjufu will attest that I spoke to him about this matter last year.

Nobody in the family now has any conviction that these people know what they're doing, my own background in that gives the insight to know it's all bollocks and I have an aunt on the other side of family who's been psyc for years and I see her as full of ish too when she tries to wade in playing expert. I recognise deliberately blinding jargonism and jingosism and psychobabble a mile off. Clearly then GM I have no doubts that people are mentally ill and that THAT is real. Clearly I respect science which looks at the tangible and measurable brain aspects of things. But misdiagnosis, the lack of consistency with ideas and the way that diseases seem to be made up to fit current trends and patterns is a big problem. Every week in the papers I'm reading some eminent psyc prof talking about a new condiction, syndrome, disease and so on. Imagine I knew that volcanos were explosive and lava came out but all my background and predecessors attributed them to angry gods vomiting. I can look into lava and it's composition as much as I want but working from that paradigm I'm not going to get anywhere and keep churning out foolishness.

It is not my fault that physicists nedd psychiatric help.

At least until they prove it.

um

[color="Red"]HERE IN THE STATES, GREEDY PARENTS WILL SAY THEIR CHILD HAS SOMETHING WRONG WITH THEIR CHILD, SO THEY COULD GET THE RITALIN, GET A NICE CHECK ANDMAKE EXCUSES WHEN THEIR CHILD ACTS UP IN SCHOOL OR DOES NOT GO TO SCHOOL.

THESE WOMEN DON'T WANT TO WORK AND ARE THE STERETYPES OF AMERICAN BLACK WOMEN. THEY KNOW THEY CAN GET A GOVERNMENT CHECK AND THERE TRULY IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH THEIR CHILD: WE ARE TALKING MENTAL ABUSE, TO THE POINT WHERE THE CHILD HAS A COMPLETE DISTORTION OF REALITY.

AND MOST PSYCHIATRISTS WILL QUICKLY OFFER MEDICATION AS OPPOSED TO FIDNING WHAT THE ROOT OF THE PROBLEM MAY BE.

TRUE, THAT SICKO, FREUD WAS ONLY CONCERNED WITH EUROPEAN CASES. HOWEVER, ALL THE MENTAL HEALTH BOOKD ARE IN RELATION TO FREUD'S THEORIES. GO FIGURE.

THIS MAN IS PUT ON A PEDASTOOL AND MOST DON'T HAVE A CLUE AS TO THIS SICKNESS THIS MAN BRINGS TO THE WORLD OF PSYCHOLOGY. THIS MAN EQUATES EVERYTHING TO SEX OR THE DEPRIVATION OF SEX. YET, HIS STUDIES WERE ON EUROPEANS AND THIS IS SUPPOSE TO APPLY TO US?? IF I AM NOT MISTAKEN, THIS MAN WAS PARTLY DILLUSIONAL DUE TO COCAINE USE. AND THIS SICKO IS REFERENCED IN OVER 90% OF BOOKS WRITTEN ABOUT PSYCHOLOGY OR MENTAL DISORDERS. UNBELIEVABLE.