Bet (uk)....hip hop Vs America whats you're take?

Agu Bu Oji · (#1 (**permalink**))

Isn't that that bad... channel 209 on sky if people didn't know already. The programming is the same as MTV but they're on now, 'Hip hop vs America' talking about issues Nelly and T.I dodging bullets (questions) on stage, admit its a bit shallow they're getting off the hook some hosts making emotionally charged speeches that go no where in front of a largely 'hip hop generation' aged crowd rather than a mature one... maybe its the talk in general .lol. they would never allow this type of stuff on tv over here, hard hitting in its own way. Glad to have the distinct racial lines they have out there in Amerikkka cross over here... even the, 'American gangster' program talked about the CIA's involvement in the drug trade, the military grade weapons and so on....

Or is it that bad... so used to a BBC censorship that BET comes as a relief? .lol. Not stickong up for it... can see the previews of up and coming programs being a bit bad.

Anyone else watching?

Kunjufu · (#2 (**permalink**))

Blacklion..I hope you don't mind but I changed the title because we already have a BET thread..plus i wanted to get a debate going on the aforementioned programme.. that I watched on you tube and BET...

I agree with you that some of the rappers have had an easy ride..BUT that said I also have to give Nelly props for turning up and taking the heat..where others have clearly shunned the debate..

However i was facinated by the arguement that Hip hop doesn't have a case to answer, and that America was like THAT before hip hop arrived... I'm not sure i'm buying that arguement at all... However i do agree that the record exe are getting off light in this debate..they need to catch some heat on this too....

Kunjufu · (#3 (**permalink**))

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melissa

K - Record execs will tell you that they allow their artists freeedom of expression and creativity and they won't censor them.

Isn't that what all artists want, for the record company to accept their product as is and not commercialise their sound/lyrics?

The buck stops with the rappers and the record buying public, you can't say the record companies don't put out rappers who do not have profanity and degrading, violent lyrical content, because they do. They just don't spend a huge amount promoting this type of music because the opposite is what makes them money, and that is the nature of their business.

It would help if they didn't have this type of music to sell in the first place.

It would be easy for the rappers to just adjust their lyrics, but they wont for fear of losing sales.

In the UK i can see a reverse in this as most of the artists who are successful do not have the same disgusting lyrical content, in the US it a much higher mountain to climb before we get to that point.

The debate on degrading women in videos was very intersting as well.

I hear you, however Nelly made a good point on this subject.. he stated that he is employed to SELL records, obviously if he does not sell then he gets the sack.. We know that sex and violence sells.. any it cannot be a coincidence that the exec are pushing the negative Artist and not the positive ones which is rare..

LadyDay · (#4 (**permalink**))

T.I. also made a good point about the video content. media outlets have greater power of what they put out too.
its the industry as a whole. however someone needs to let the buck stop with them
I am not against sexy videos, we just need variety so people know this is not the only options

DtotheJ · (#5 (**permalink**))

We are too lazy.

There are hundreds of forms of Black expression out there...nd what do we do...turn on the tv or turn on the radio and think that this is the end all/ be all of Black expression.

books,art galleries, plays, MUSICAL plays, dance,poetry readings,etc etc

A world out there that we are missing out on because it's simpler to just turn on the tv or the radio.

Femergy · (#6 (**permalink**))

As someone who was very much into KRS1, NWA and Public Enemy, and before that Grand Master Flash and other old school genre, I feel that the lyrical content switched from being pro-Black/anti-establishment toward a lyrical content that has sought to attack ourselves.

We see this playing out with our youths on the street and the pattern is there for all to see - the establishment in some way shape or form gets us to internalise our anger away from them and toward ourselves facilitated via drugs, guns and music. As such, I don't believe that we i.e. our artists are behind this at its root, but we do facilitate it for the love of money/fame.

I watched the debate on Saturday and was stimulated by a number of good points that I felt the panel made. But we had a similar debate here in the UK some years ago and the same argument was coming up that basically bounced around two key issues: the degrading of women and the negative influence over our youth.

Whilst the programme pointed out that the source of gangster comes from white America, it is lyricised and sold via our musical genres i.e. hip hop, RnB, Dancehall and Rap. The popularisation of Hip Hop in particular has been the conduit through which this has happened because Hip Hop was also the vessel through which our spirituality was channelled (as with Roots & Culture Reggae music). Some Roots artists have also been persuaded to leave the straight and narrow and some have returned and some have not moved. This shows the backbone of roots and culture reggae artists who stand on their conviction as compared with the capitalist residents of the USofA (my view here) and those who would aspire to that lifestyle.

So Hip Hop is not a bad genre of music but it does need to be reclaimed for what it is, not was. Hip Hop is not dead, it has been basterdized as has a number of black culturally specific modes of expression i.e. dance with overly sexualisation of black women.

In terms of the comments regarding the degree to which artists in this country are as explicit as American Hip Hop artists, I would have to disagree with any suggestion that this is not happening. Grime music is fastly replacing the youths aspiration of American Rap/Hip Hop as the preferred choice of street credible music. I have heard some Grime that I have to look at my son and have choice words with him about. As a young artist himself, I have had to guide him around the dangers of explicit material and made attractive to him the development of positive and edifying lyrics. This is sinking in and he is actively working on producing lyrics of a positive nature.

On the whole, I believe the music industry in the UK cannot get away with here what they can in the US until ,of course, it benefits the white establishment for it to do so. At the moment, drugs and guns are fulfilling the role of internal chaos within our community without the need to recourse to disfunctional music. But it will happen if needed.

I liked Nelly's comment around the fact that not all Hip Hop has to be about telling young people what to do and how to do it etc. Sometimes music can be too hard hitting and heavy and easing up on this with some fun/lighthearted stuff can be refreshing.

LadyDay · (#7 (**permalink**))

snoops take on the video women
BET.com - Hip Hop vs America Snoop Dogg’s On Women In Videos

Agu Bu Oji · (#8 (**permalink**))

Quote:

As someone who was very much into KRS1, NWA and Public Enemy, and before that Grand Master Flash and other old school genre, I feel that the lyrical content switched from being pro-Black/anti-establishment toward a lyrical content that has sought to attack ourselves.

Thats how I see it, in the same way there were constraints put on our musical (cultural) output in the Carib the same has been put on those of us in the states... with all the sex, drugs and money you can expect from consumerist capitalist societies its all done in denial of the good music thats out there as a ''black'' entertainment channel I'm expecting BET to play some soul, a bit of Jazz and Funk, perhaps some house alongside reggae and the usual hip hop/rap but I don't see that happening. Its all inkeeping with ''our place'' in society and theres no excusing it, fine if you're from that background and talk about it but it gets to the point where you are perpetuating a problem and they (certain artists) know it.

Was intresting hearing that Nelly was upset about his bone marrow drive and the lack of attention it got as he was doing it for his sister and she (sadly) died from the disease... not that hes' a bad entertainer (not an artist, theres a diffrence) but to be making ignorant music for strip clubs and then using your, ''fame'' to raise awareness for something such as bone marrow disease is an act in self defeat you can't be signed (literally owned) by a label and use your fame to do a drive for the community, one act negates the other and the media has alot more reach than he'll get on his own... they even had problems with Dave Chapells Block Party as the labels didn't want their artists to do the show and were causing problems.

They should have got Guru from Gangstarr on stage, loads of (good) artists they could have asked who would have taken them up on the offer, KRS 1 would have I'm sure, guy is outspoken on the issue...

Still undecided on BET as of yet... don't think its the same programming as they have out in the states.

Femergy · (#9 (**permalink**))

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Lion

Still undecided on BET as of yet... don't think its the same programming as they have out in the states.

Don't forget, this is not the first time BET has got onto UK tv screens. I got cable back in 1995 because of BET. then within about 6 months they were off the air. I emailed them to find out what went wrong and they said they didn't know and asked me what I thought had gone wrong

I wouldn't mind working with the Uk channel. I think there is lots more potential for it now than back then, however, I wouldn't want the sacrifice to be other potential black UK channels that could equally deliver a quality channel if given support e.g. Colourful.

Kunjufu · (#10 (**permalink**))

I seen that sh*t! Bullsh*t! The woman is perceived the way…she is perceived. It is what it is, man. You gotta look at what hip-hop is. Hip-hop is not the stories. It’s not a soap opera. Hip-hop is not ‘The View.’ It’s not…’The Oprah Winfrey Show.’ Hip-hop is what it is.

We have our certain views on women the way we do. It’s like Playboy. Do anybody got something to say about the way Playboy view women? They take their shirt off and show their t**ties. That’s the first way to get into Playboy. You gotta show Hugh Heffner your t**ties if you wanna get in Playboy. There’s nothing degrading about that, but at the same time, when we show women in videos, they have their clothes on. We don’t play videos on BET with women naked; we can’t get away with that. But it’s degrading what we’re doing, when in actuality, we’re giving these women a chance to shine. Now, if these women would become directors and depict women in a different light, then that would give them a different light as far as the way people view them. A male director is gonna direct it the way he feels. He’s gonna make it the way a woman looks sexy.

Look at this for example. How many ugly women selling records? None! Only the pretty ones sell records. Beyonce, Mary J, Keyshia Cole, the ugly ones don’t sell. I ain’t gon say no names, but they don’t sell records. They just be singing their little hearts out, but they don’t get no sales, cause they ugly. Now, that’s my fault? I can see this on TV now: ‘Snoop Dogg called me, ugly.’ You beautiful on the inside, baby. What I wanna say to go on top of that, to the chocolate women, the dark-skinned women, I love ya’ll. I got a chocolate daughter at home. I always tell her chocolate is the best thing in the world. Don’t think that light skin is in, chocolate ain’t never went nowhere. Black is beautiful. I love dark-skinned women. That’s why my videos be having dark women in them. I always used to have light-skinned women. Look at it. Show them one of my videos.

Listen to Snoop’s Ego Trippin’ album here.

–SNOOP DOGG

Wow just Wow.....I'd love to be a fly on the wall, if his 'chocolate daughter' ever decides to skin up herself on some fly by night video.. i wonder if his attitude would be the SAME then?

Agu Bu Oji · (#11 (**permalink**))

Quote:

Don't forget, this is not the first time BET has got onto UK tv screens. I got cable back in 1995 because of BET. then within about 6 months they were off the air. I emailed them to find out what went wrong and they said they didn't know and asked me what I thought had gone wrong I wouldn't mind working with the Uk channel. I think there is lots more potential for it now than back then, however, I wouldn't want the sacrifice to be other potential black UK channels that could equally deliver a quality channel if given support e.g. Colourful.

Don't remember them being here, was a while ago. BET have enough money to fund decent well made programs and have a name for themselves already, Colourful or any other channel would have a long way to go to catch up.

Did they give you a job after you called and asked what what wrong with their program? A neighbor of mine helped with their opening over here in the UK went by quietly, would have thought they'd make some noise about it them being American and all

Are they Black owned? Thought part of the problem with them was that they sold out to a Japanese company a while ago?