...are we...are they becoming 'normal'?

ITN - Student killed in 'horrendous attack'

My cousin told me about that last night as I hadn't seen it on the news yet.....Edmonton is starting to get a worse rep than Peckham now with all these recent killings, when just a year ago nobody outside North London had even heard of the place.

They tied him to a chair and beat him to death, his mother came home and found him.

This one shocked me have to admit, a friend of the family knows them. Its something the Turkish mafia would do he might have got involved in something, doesn't take much, mistaken identiety perhaps, just hope the culprits weren't black.

Black Lion - yeah always try to tell myself it's not a black on black and try to see them as murders first and black on black when proven. Here we go again!!

ITN - Teenager shot dead in south London

just wondering what our fellow American BNV think: when i visited NYC many years ago, almost every day there was a new horrific murder/homicide reported on the news - many murders did not make the news; does it make you desensitised??

What's happening to our people?

The irony is gangs are proving what is achievable when individual's unite. Gangs are proving the concept of unity, family, community and strength in depth - albeit it a weakness.

alabamagirl - for all the killings I'm still a staunch advocate in the belief that if our children are killing themselves it's the generation before them who have failed. It's the adults who needed to sort themselves out, unfortunately the next generation are already adults now so when the previous generation look at the new the previous should be seeing their own failings - not to do so simply perpetuates the sellout.

I know many people trying some last minute moves in a so called attempt to make a difference when they're really just trying to cover their own guilt and yes there are those who have seen the light and trying to put back in but even if we are big enough to admit it you can't stop physics, bolting the door when the horse has already legged it is simply a conscience clearing exercise....something to make you get back the sleep you've lost.

In the psychology of prevention is better than cure then we live in ever decreasing circles where the latest fixes are to cure consequences of what should have been prevented before the current consequence were even thought imaginable i.e. our preventions are three, four five fold deep where each tier becomes the new root with more chance of these tiers getting deeper than more shallow.

Amoral is the new moral. My friend lived in NYC back in the day and he said every night you used to hear gun shot firing in the distance and just took it for granted that some men are sorting out their differences. If the US can be used as a model of where this is going and what can be done to avoid it then you will recognise the powers that be for the most part will simply let it run its course.

And do not underestimate the contribution of the system in creating this environment, indeed the body they call Trident along with other initiatives is simply proof of their own conscience clearing agenda but ultimately Trident is just to rub salt in the wounds, if crime is crime which should be dealt with as such then having a specific group for dealing with so called black on black crime is the system's way of saying we have our own equivalent to the RSPCA.

absolute BOLLOX, not only is that NOT a fair assessment of the facts its totally unfair, having been travelling recently i'm beginning to realise that in some respects this may be a global issue....connected with so called developed countries... I was struck having just returned from the Caribbean how similar the youth look, dressed and behaved to the youth in the country.. the only difference in the Caribbean that i found was that there was not the youth on youth killing epidemic that we have here... that is definately unique to this country.

So my question is what is the common denominator to the youth in Americas, the Caribbean and the UK, [black & white] that makes them talk the same, dress the same and have elements of the anti cultural behaviour i wonder? [as i i didn't know].

further it seems to me that for decades now the past generations has been getting it in the neck for not raising the current generations...my question is.. Is that really true, is it really a fact or just the a perception? Could it be that we are overlooking the most OBVIOUS and that is an examination of the conditions in which these children obvious absorb their values and mores from...

Here is what i'm struggling with right now and maybe someone can answer this point, right now youth killing is top of the agenda, there can't be a household that hasn't discussed it, or know about it... these youth deaths are televised and discussed till the cows come home... so how is it that sometimes within hours/days of the latest story another killing takes places..

To me it give the impression that either they [the children] aren't listening or they simply don't care.. but either way they are simply NOT taking it onboard the public concerns about these act... and killing people without THOUGHT. Call me crazy if you like but that type of behaviour is far bigger and broader than a lack of parenting..that is something else so the question is what?

Living in big cities crime & murders go hand n hand. I wouldnt say i'm desensitized, but im not surprised when things pop off.

Kunjufu - I've told you before, you've been in that profession of yours too long. When I say the generation before that doesn't stop at parents, it's governments, advertising, marketing, consmerism and society in general - all inclusive.

As I said already the youths are not listening because the horse has already bolted. You don't question why they aint listening or why they don't care, we know they aint or don't it's like asking a man certified as insane why he doesn't care anymore and expect an answer based on someone who does care, or like accusing black people of apathetic yet proceed in creating so called solutions based on them not being apathetic then turn around asking the same questions when things get no better.

Be careful brotha, I see Trevor Philips in you in that you sure it's not the case that you actually need it to be absolute bollox? The further you look the lesser you see. Don't watch America or the Caribbean, it's on your doorstep bruv.

...and for the most part, other countries have been there and done it...it's us playing catch up and being last in the chain those who indulge want to set the new precednt...want to be the biggest and the baddest than anything before them. I alluded to this in the previous post but you only highlighted the bit that identified you as a parent so missed the bigger all inclusive point.

Adults blaming children - how wotliss is that....as if it's the latter that brought the former.

Where we as parents have to take the onus and where it does stop with us is to say ultimately there is a problem bigger than parenting where as parents we have to be ready to say so.

That said I'm still a staunch advocate that this is done internally as opposed to running to the oppressor for help but debated this enough and can only conclude looking to the system for guidance is simply an admission that this way is a path of lesser resistance than the path of us doing it for ourselves....and that's whether consciously or subconsciously. Ok I don't believe I was the only person who believed they were working towards this goal, there are many battlefields and on each one you mix up with people you get to realise love it in west, again a lesser evil to Africa, there'll be no better opportunity to get to point your finger....indeed the only time they'd consider Africa is when given the opportunity to pop style on the natives.

For all it's institutionalised racism it's no different to looking to the system for somewhere to house your new born or somewhere to send your kids to get educated.....in the argument where there's no solution which will not cost, it seems babylon is the cheapest option in time, money and lives.

Every teen that dies is my child just like every teen perpetrator and like anything else, for the most part it will only work if enough people think and actually believe the same. The reality is most people are only in it for themselves and only get involved as a means to prevent the shame, embarrassment and sense of responsibility reaching their door.

It's this individualism that has everybody wanting a solution but only if when everything is resolved they get to be the one to say it was all down to them....which is contradictory and defeats the very object.

They the children don't care? No doubt they say the same i.e. we as adults don't.

Speaking to one of my biggerheads on differences between the UK, US and the Caribbean and he says it's nothing but the benefit system, we get things too free here which has the potential to be catostrophic to lazy people and freeloaders and those who want to make a living without working the 9-5 i.e. don't want to work but still want house and car.


Shared values build communities anyone with none is proof they are simply out for themselves and are in a state of mind which believes shared values = survival or even black skin.

Fundamentally it is my belief the first generation of black people in the UK had little choice in finding their feet and were at the mercy of the system. We have now seen that system for what it is so to continually put or hopes and trust in it is meaningless - in this sense we are failures as parents and our children directly or indirectly reap the consequences of this.

Also don't underestimate how the UK was targeted as the next frontier in the world of drugs....the US market was saturated the UK was the next natural playground i.e. a cosmopolitan with poor people, a whole generation of kids has been caught up in this. The powers that be saw this coming years ago and will probably tell you imagine how bad it would have been if they didn't put certain measures into place.