It would seem that to many on this site being black means 'problems'

There seems to be this collective mentality that as a people (black isn't a race it's a colour, but another discussion altogether ) We are somehow dysfunctional. We need fixing. Be that via positive role models (pref rich) History lessons or seperationism.

But what is wrong with us really? What's with all the negativity about us and where we are at? What/Who are you using as benchmarks?

Are some on these boards being subconciously influenced by outside projections of us and other communities?

What I see is a strong people who at times can be ugly, but mostly beautiful, in terms of how we carry ourselves, deal with one another and survive.

Examples from these boards of our 'problem'

Do we have a serious thug problem here in the uk

@Thaliba....
There are some deep deated problems that cannot be swept under the carpet..
Identity..Culture..Pigmentation..a lack of Personal responsibilty...that manifest into this myriad of problems

Hence the reason we debate the good the bad and the ugly..and I think thats the case..we just highlighted 9 year old mathematical genuises..Adam Afriye..though skeptical but still a feel good story..not always a one-way street...
I'm more worried about the negative vibe coming from current language and music...all this no good black man..all men are dogs and black women are "ho*s"..has to be nipped in the bud..at least for the sake of the next generation...
Don't believe the hype..there are more black couples out there..maybe its just me but I see more black couples nowadays...

Sorry but I disagree with Astmartin and totally agree with Talibah...there is too much negative navel gazing...

Well @K...thats your point of view..
End of the day people love drama..its this overtly intrusive age we live in...create a thread on s*ex..interacial stuff..and all the other *isms and see the posts flow...

Do me a favour..Go see the thread on those pre-teen mathematical genuises and count the posts..
All the positive posts Judge J and Newstyle( from time to time)..take time out to hightlight achievements both in the Diaspora and the Continent..hardly any responses..

Another thing is most of the negative stuff is taken from the pre-dominant YT media..since we cannot boast of a Media outlet or reputable Media Print this nonsense would persist...reason why Arabs had to set up Al-Jezeera..and poached enough good western Journalist..money talks..bullsh*t walks...

Anyway I see myself as African first...maybe I'm not pertubed with things associated with being "black"..a colour nonetheless!!

An aside...One of the reasons I cannot stand Oprah's fake a.zz..was regarding the show on dearth of available "black" men for "professional black women"...now instead of asking the "black" women the demographic of the "black men" they seeked out..she was going on about how they should try "non-blacks"..not once did she mention how about them trying African or Caribbean men!!

what is wrong with us?? Are you serious? do you not what a mess so many of us are in? Do you not see the state that a lot of countries in Africa are in right now and the effect on its people? Do you not see how this (Africa's history and what's happening in present times) has affected us all and continues to affect us whether on the continent of Africa or in the diaspora?

I think you can answer your questions yourself if you think about it, and try to put aside automatic knee-jerk defensive reactions that plenty of us (understandably) have whenever we are criticised or whenever we feel that we are under attack.

Our situation differs depending on (amongst other things) where we are in the world and what our background is - so we have to accept (for all our cries for 'unity') that we are not one monolithic group called The Black Community or Black People. One thing we do all seem to have in common is that we have been oppressed for a good long time now and we do not seem to benefit as much from our continent's resources as we should.

Some of us are doing better than others - in some ways, but doing worse than others in other ways. However, we must never accept dysfunctionality as 'normal' or try to play it like we don't really have any serious problems. WE DO.

Ive been working a few days a week in an area which is heavily populated with black WI and Africans. Other colleagues have always struggled with business at this particular branch and its seen as a bit of a poison chalice.

(They've sent me in there to do a turnaround job, being the finest there is...lol)

My observations, over the last 6mths, do not make good reading seeing as my people make up a large portion of the customer base. Large numbers of us have geared ourselves up heavily with bad debt, ie 2 or 3 personal loans PLUS high interest Secured Loans and Credit Card debt (and want more too). There are high numbers of us with bad credit ratings, ie County Court Judgments, Default Notices and severe Missed Payment Histories. We have very small to none savings balances and generally have low incomes.

One thing which has struck me is that there seems to very few of us who hold joint bank accounts. IMO the joining together of finances is a much more effective way of running tings than trying to live separate financial lives, both psychologically and physically.

As a random example, if a couple meet and have separate assets, but one partner has debt, whats the point of saying to the partner to clear their own debt and the couple both to struggle on. If the person with bad debt has assets to offer and they come together with everything, then the cleared debt will help the COUPLE move forward and the person without the debt gains an asset to compensate. If doing this means one person has an extra £500 per mth disposable income, it should mean that the couple benefit by £500 per mth and have a chance to save, holidays etc. The alternative is struggle on for yrs all because one person is saying "its your sheet sort it out". Even the practice of having a joint account for paying the bills and one for saving, is the way forward and you will notice is the method of successful married couples.

We dont do this and too many of us haven't sussed this yet and are still in the "whats mine is mine" mentality and even worse, "whats mine is mine and whats hers is mine too"...lol In fact i wonder how many of you reading this have a joint bank account?

Been doing this role for a number of years now and have worked in a poor white Essex Suburb, seen plenty of Turks and Asians and currently still work in a Greek Cypriot populated area as well. So i do have lots to compare with. It saddens me but we just aint doing it.

I often analyse things and ask the "why" question and compare.

Some of the other groups of people have entered the UK with as much/even less than we did back in the 50s, yet somehow are much further forward in their fortunes than us in a shorter space of time. Hell a lot of the Turkish community who are still migrating, cant even speak the Language and i still see higher numbers of their people opening Business Accounts, own multiple properties both residential and commercial and can show Trading Accounts with net profit, than i do amongst my own people. Yes the Turks do also have the same problems with bad credit etc but there are SO much more of the BETTER examples.

The Greek Cypriots, dont really entertain the employed system and they have somehow managed to first get themselves populated in sought after areas and have wealth in high savings balances and expensive London property with ZERO bad debt, ie Credit Cards and loans. They don't really earn that much comparatively but have saved hard, paid the mortgages down and used the equity, which has been plenty in London, to gear on further assets.

Another MASSIVE trend amongst the other groups which i RARELY see amongst ourselves is the passing on of assests to the children. The other groups are always asking to remortgage to give to their children or the children will use their earning power to leverage against the family home to start businesses or buy further property. Rarely if ever do i see these examples amonsgt our people.

We got a few issues to consider i think.

@ Kunfuju - LOL, you seem to have made some massive assumptions about what you THINK I'm saying in my post. In fact readin your post, it looks as if you might even be responding to someone else's post rather than mine... but as you've addressed me directly I see it must be mine you are replying to.

Perhaps if you read my post again (rather than just skim it and come to a pre-formed conclusion about what you think is being said) you might see that your response bears no relation to anything I've actually said. Anyhow...

@ Mr Equanimity - you seem to be agreeing with stuff he THINKS I said... and have even added your own assumptions around what I'm supposed to have said! LOL

I think I'll leave you guys to debate this one. I simply don't have the energy for it. If there are those amongst us who truly don't believe Africa and African people have any major problems that need to be addressed, no major problems that are seriously damaging our progress and that are seriously harming us on many levels worldwide - then you're quite free to continue under that delusion, I won't be trying to convince you otherwise that's for sure.

@ Tahliba - just out of interest, would you ask the same questions and make the same statements (as in your initial post) in relation to say... the Aborigines of Australia, or how about the native Americans?

What I'm asking you is, do you think they are 'okay' too - or would you say they are not in fact 'okay' and agree that things have gone badly wrong for those groups of people?

I'm not asking you to compare them to any other group; just take those two sets of people and look at where they are/their current position in their lands. If you want, you can compare them to where they themselves are coming from/their own history... but I'm not suggesting for a minute that you should rack your brains for any other groups to compare them to.

btw I have deliberately and specifically addressed Tahliba here (and in my previous post also) so would appreciate if others could maybe allow her to reply to me on the things I've addressed to HER (if she wishes) - rather than jumping in with knee-jerk rants that have nada to do with anything I've actually said.

I'm simply not going to be pulled into having to keep addressing and correcting lazy misconceptions when people hastily jump to conclusions without reading and comprehending my posts correctly.

If Tahliba believes anything I've written in response to her initial post is 'nonsense talk' then sis you are quite free to respond and explain why you feel that way, or if you'd prefer - you can choose not to respond. One more thing Tahliba, I would agree with you 100% that Africans ability to survive is remarkable, and that is the reason why we're still here. We don't die - we multiply!

^
Shame you forgot to pick up on the hard facts thrown in by a few...a bit shattered had tonnes to do this weekend..but would be back to address this perceived illusion some of you are entranced by..and that point about daydreaming regarding other ethnicities..well...u guys brought them into the equation and just for the record the facts speak for themselves..

The truth is indeed bitter...and I see the same rhetoric in the post regarding the woman with 11 kids..a misnomer so blatant if i ever saw one...
You using colour and history as a rationale for what a person of any colour should be above board...you beginning to sound like those patronizing labour left wing politicians..
You think you doing them a favour like Red Labour did...well look at the mess all around u!!
Damn!!....Maybe what you trying to say essentially is this is as good as it gets...

And @Thaliba I still stand by my comments in that thug post you flagged up..obviously irked you to bring it up again!!

TBC......

@ Equanimity - okay my bad. It looked as if you were agreeing with what he was saying in response to what he THOUGHT I was saying, and also adding your two cents to it. In actual fact his post was quite a general rant and wasn't really a genuine or specific response to what I said, so I understand why you disconnected it from my own post.

Well done. Let’s have a round of applause. A standing ovation even… for your attempt to draw me out even after I’ve stated that I don’t have the energy for this discussion. Good effort there though, trying to bait and rile me.

Tragically, it hasn’t worked. BOABDL

As said previously, I really don’t have the energy for this one. I know I can leave it to others to debate and try to enlighten and that is what I will do. Astmartin seems - so far - to (pretty much) be on the same page as I am - so he can have a good go if he wants.

Kunjufu... you’re so, so far off base… and so absurd are your remarks - that it really would make no sense for me to even take seriously - never mind to actually point by point address your previous rant or this latest one - and believe me, I could if I wanted to rip your post to pieces.

The thing is this, to get into anything with you would be akin to trying to reason with a three year old that’s in the midst of a temper tantrum...

Frustrating and ultimately futile.

You aren't suggesting that mandatory accounting business? LOL

I searched this thread for the word POWER. I found powerful a couple of time in relation to nations. But we don't get economic power from buying junk the palefaces designed to become obsolest.

Economic Wargames: How the economic model is unsustainable and enslaving.

Of course not figuring out the palefaces lies doesn't exactly empower us either.

um

I don’t want to bore with loads of links but for anyone who is interested in learning about just some of the very real (and potentially catastrophic) issues facing Africa and Africans, have a read of these stories.

If however, you read these (or even already know about them) and still think Africa hasn’t got any major problems, then frankly – I don’t know what to say to you.


allAfrica.com: Africa: The New Scramble for Africa

Boycott Shell/Free Nigeria: The main issues

How food and water are driving a 21st-century African land grab | Environment | The Observer

The food rush: Rising demand in China and west spark African land grab | Environment | guardian.co.uk

You have highlighted a genuine issue that affects some of our community from movin forward with your points on banking arrangements of afro caribbean couples.

For example my parents had a joint account until my dad decided to buy himself a car with the savings in the account without discussing it with my mother. This was the beginning of the end for the relationship.

My father was a man that loved all the vices whilst my mother on the otherhand loved to save her money..

Today my father looks back on his life with regrets living alone in a one bed council flat. My mother lives in a bought 3 bedroom semi detached home alone also but importantly happy & enjoying her retirement.

Back to the original posters contempt for people that continually refer to issues within the black community I can definitely identify with her premise that we can sometimes be too quick to make generalisations.

Nonetheless I also think we need to understand that these outlandish quotes made by some including myself sometimes are not made for the sake of trying to put down or belittle our community. It is more often an attempt to rationalise and come to terms with why we allow these things o occur in our community.

I was reasoning with a colleague at work in the presence of a South African man the other day about the forthcoming world cup and the topic got onto to the current climate of the country. He made this statement that the country was in his opinion a formula one car being ran by a novice with little or no education.

I didn't want to get into a heated argument so I dismissed it. On another occassion he told me to go and live there for a few years and he said I bet you will change your opinion of the black people there. He himself was of Portugese origin and told me how they were treated by the Afrikaans. Not good by his accounts..

He went on to point out to me some of the most horrific crimes being commited by black males on black infants.. Paedophilia is the term I would use for this crime. I use this example (where I could of used countless others where they appear to be synominous within the black community) to simply say that no one is going to convince me that a grown man cannot know this is wrong no matter what you have been told by the local witch doctors; it will cure you of HIV.

If I came on here and said black people are wicked I would have ecountered the wrath of Kunjufu and Tahliba no doubt. My question is what should we say and do when we are mortified with the incidents that happen around us daily?

It would seem that to many on this site being black means 'problems'

There seems to be this collective mentality that as a people (black isn't a race it's a colour, but another discussion altogether ) We are somehow dysfunctional. We need fixing. Be that via positive role models (pref rich) History lessons or seperationism.

But what is wrong with us really? What's with all the negativity about us and where we are at? What/Who are you using as benchmarks?

Are some on these boards being subconciously influenced by outside projections of us and other communities?

What I see is a strong people who at times can be ugly, but mostly beautiful, in terms of how we carry ourselves, deal with one another and survive.

My original post just for the record. I didn't mention the continent. I was talking about the negativity on these boards in regards us as a diaspora people not a nation.

@ Comfortandjoy

Why would I make statements about Aborigines of Australia or America? Again it is about these boards and us. And why we feel the need to compare how postion to other groups. Why we feel the need to focus on the negativity.

Ok so we are not great where financing is concerned in comparison to...was it Greeks and Turks? How does this impact on us? Is the comparison fair..given the mentioned immigrant groups are of European origin and have EU financing. What of continental Africans (in my opinion the most finance savvy people outside of jews)

As said what is our problem? And yes I am serious.

To be honest I don't recall who posted what in that thread, so don't take it personal. But yes the thread bothered me in that it impliled that Black people in this country were problematic due to a 'thug menatality' And yet the concept 'thug' was never defined. And yes that thread amongst others did prompt this one.

Also I meant to post other examples but got distracted and haven't been back since. Like I said it ain't personal so please don''t take it as

Over the years I have posted most of these links or stories. But as said not talking about Africa and it's problems as a nation but us in the diaspora and on these boards.

I don't see anything on these boards that I don't see in real life.

If the negativity is PROGRAMMED into the MINDS OF CHILDREN then it comes out when they are adults and put into the minds of the next generation of children. It is not just the White controlled media.

Of course all of the STATUS SEEKING NEGROES that need Whites to tell them what status is are sending the same message in a different way.

I have seen this in technology with people buying stereos and TVs and now computers more for status than for what the technology can actually do. It is most hilarious with computers because even a used two year old computer is so powerful that a new one is hardly any better.

But with all of the complaining about education and then we don't make use of the educational possibilities of these computers. It is just ridiculous.

Computers as tutors - section I

Isaac Asimov wrote about it 50 years ago but he didn't expect it for another 100 years.

The Fun They Had

um

Financial prosperity is vital, unless one believes that we belong in the worst housing in the poorest districts, unable to pass a bean through our generations, with zero empowerment.

The impact is huge.

The observations i spoke of were generally involving people that are rooted here and should have many advantages over new immigrants. What does EU funding provide for immigtants, id be interested to know this?

The comparisons are fair if we're able to take an honest look at ourselves and self criticise areas that can be addressed..

What makes you say this?

The danger with posts that are of a similar ilk to yours is that you are making the assumption that some people within our communities lack the ability to know right from wrong. I don't need the white media or any ews agency to tell me when something is not right.

Equally I know what looks nice when purchasing goods and therefore make my choice of what to buy accordingly sometimes with little regard for the specifications of the product. Its called choice.

I am not trying to pick on you so please do not take this the wrong way but I felt your post was very slanted in that it relied on the lens you choose to look at life and gave very little consideration for the lens that I may choose to view things.

A classic example is the labelling syndrome given to some black folks simply because their ideals and values differ to others. I hate this; it is a form of control that leads the weak to conformity.

Lets learn to accept the differences we all have as it makes things far more interesting especially when debating factors like the one proposed by the oroginal poster.