It's About Identity

Khome · (#1 (**permalink**))

What a great topic to debate.

I've been seriously searching for answers on this question for a while now. And, that may sound strange but sometimes your too busy being something to really think about what it means.

Some of the things it means for me are: identify - you are a part of a group that's distinctly marked out by its colour. This has its advantages and disadvantages.

Challenge - challenges are an opportunity to raise your game, to try harder and be / do your best. But they can also representa struggle to overcome and win out.

belonging - to a group that's easily identifiable, that has a distinct and rich history. That has much to be proud.

I've got some further thoughts on colour and writing at http://www.unheardwords.co.uk/editorial.htm

And I really do look forward to the progress of this particular dialogue.

Regards, Khome

Breadfruit · (#2 (**permalink**))

identity, informs the intellect. the conscious actions of an individual can be traced to how that person sees themselves. eg african, from africa; related to a particular continent, experienceetc

also how othersidentify that individual, can or will affect how that person interactswithin a society.one commonexample: black, having no culture or history worth speaking about; ex slaves, should be grateful their living in the westand not in the third worldetc.

it is now quite easy to see that if you can control how people see themselves, you can control what they think, and do.

fundamentally identity is a main determinant in human history

Khome · (#3 (**permalink**))

So do I understand it right if I summarise by saying that we are the result not only of our nature and nurture but of our history. This is a personal history (that of our own lifetime) but also the history of our family, and friends and the community we associate with. I guess you could also look at it and say we live in a melting pot, but we can't help but remember the ingredients that were originally added.

Any comment, any time, welcomed and appreciated. Regards, Khome

codebreaker · (#4 (**permalink**))

Breadfruit wrote:

Quote:

identity, informs the intellect. the conscious actions of an individual can be traced to how that person sees themselves. eg african, from africa; related to a particular continent, experienceetc

also how othersidentify that individual, can or will affect how that person interactswithin a society.one commonexample: black, having no culture or history worth speaking about; ex slaves, should be grateful their living in the westand not in the third worldetc.

is is now quite easy to see that if you can control how people see themselves, you can control what they think, and do.

fundamentally identity is a main determinant in human history

Exactly! Bravo Breadfruit! Identity is coupled with ancestral memory, both intuitive and taught. In 2004, my grandson is "instructed" by his high school world history teacher (white) on African history as it applies to him (my grandson): "Black people wouldn't have been enslaved in America if Africans hadn't sold them into slavery." In 2004!!

Quote:

Now, of course, he is exposed to the complexity of that statement in his home. But how many children are not? How do the other children in his classroom internalize that statement? How does it compel them to view the Nigerian born businessman riding the Metro with them? The Ghanian born mother and her children?

Quote:

How does it compel them to view themselves? As the progeny of the "losers" in the "who is to be enslaved" battle?

Quote:

Couple the classroom messages with the media messages - it is little wonder that young people STILL ...in 2004....say the phrases "light skinned" and "good hair" with longing.

P.S. At least there has been ONE improvement in his "education" vs mine: When I was in high school, the his story of Black people in Amerikkka started when we stepped off the ships onto the docks here. We had evidently "materialized" out of thin air in the Bermuda Triangle!!

Ahmaad · (#5 (**permalink**))

Breadfruit:

I'd like to second those props that Codebreaker gave you for this statement:

---also how others identify that individual, can or will affect how that person interacts within a society. one common example: black, having no culture or history worth speaking about; ex slaves, should be grateful their living in the west and not in the third world etc.---

To often all black people are lumped together as the same people with no identity or meaningful culture worth acknowledging

It's as if white people or "Caucasians" can identify themselves as Nordic, Mediterranian, Arab, Indian, Hispanic, French, Italian, ect.....and people will take interest in the varied differences and praise them.

But we...with probably more variation in ethnicity and language in just West Africa ALONE, than the entire so-called white race...can only be seen as "black" or "negros" in the eyes of most of the world.

A white man can be a Muslim, Hindu, Christian, Atheist, even a Buddhist or Pagan and people will respect him as he calls himself.

On the other hand, we aren't accepted as true Catholics by the Italians and Hispanics, we're not true Muslims by the Arabs, if we adopt Judaism we aren't seen as serious and may be laughed at....and I won't even comment on being accepted by the Orientals as true Buddhists.

It's as if we have no place in this world according to most people...accept as slaves and outcasts.

Taysense · (#6 (**permalink**))

What can you say, white people look a like to me too though their are distinct differences among some.confused3

as far asarabs not accepting black people as muslims, nope have to disagree with you on that, a true muslim will accept anyone who is a muslim irrespective of color. Why do you need people to accept you anyways?

Breadfruit · (#7 (**permalink**))

Ahmaad wrote: T

Quote:

o often all black people are lumped together as the same people with no identity or meaningful culture worth acknowledging

It's as if white people or "Caucasians" can identify themselves as Nordic, Mediterranian, Arab, Indian, Hispanic, French, Italian, ect.....and people will take interest in the varied differences and praise them.

But we...with probably more variation in ethnicity and language in just West Africa ALONE, than the entire so-called white race...can only be seen as "black" or "negros" in the eyes of most of the world.

A white man can be a Muslim, Hindu, Christian, Atheist, even a Buddhist or Pagan and people will respect him as he calls himself.

On the other hand, we aren't accepted as true Catholics by the Italians and Hispanics, we're not true Muslims by the Arabs, if we adopt Judaism we aren't seen as serious and may be laughed at....and I won't even comment on being accepted by the Orientals as true Buddhists.

It's as if we have no place in this world according to most people...accept as slaves and outcasts.

Quote:

Just bringing this topic back because Omar's post brings to mind my reading of Fanon's "Black Skin, White Masks"

Quote:

I concluded that Fanon did not want to be defined by the power of the colonialist; he wanted his unique humanity to be expressed via his will, and nothing else.

Quote:

Pan Africanism to me does not negate this, but it brings to table, just as Fanon did, the terrible reality of colonialism of Africa and the African- how this particular oppression affected the African mind and worldview.

Quote:

We cannot always measure our suffering, defeats, triumphs and successes next to those of other people, for other people have not been through our particular experiences.

Quote:

Hence we are here, and others are there............

Quote:

blackguru · (#8 (**permalink**))

goin back to the original topic of Identity. It is true to say that arace's history is very important to their progress. if it wasnt, White peoplewouldnt spend so much money preserving theirs and letting everyone else know about it. think of the billions spent on Books, programs, films, education, libraries and museums. Not only do they spend and enormous amount of timesd publicising their own history but hoarding valuable antiquities belonging to other cultures.

It up to us as indiviual and as a race to find out about our own history and pass it on to others in our community.

Breadfruit · (#9 (**permalink**))

"The oppressed and the exploited of the earth maintain their defiance: liberty from theft. But the biggest weapon wielded and actually daily unleashed by imperialism against that collective defiance is the cultural bomb

The effect of a cultural bomb is to annihilate a people's belief in their names, in their languages, in their environment, in their heritage of struggle, in their unity, in their capacities and ultimately in themselves.

It makes them see their past as one wasteland of non-achievement and it makes them want to distance themselves from that wasteland. It makes them want to identify with that which is furthest removed from themselves; for instance, with other peoples' languages rather than their own. It makes them identify with that which is decadent and reactionary, all those forces which would stop their own springs of life. It even plants serious doubts about the moral rightness of struggle.

Possibilities of triumph or victory are seen as remote, ridiculous dreams."

Ngugi Wa Thiong'o
Decolonising the Mind

HLF · (#10 (**permalink**))

Breadfruit wrote:

Quote:

"But the biggest weapon wielded and actually daily unleashed by imperialism against that collective defiance is the cultural bomb

The effect of a cultural bomb is to annihilate a people's belief in their names, in their languages, in their environment, in their heritage of struggle, in their unity, in their capacities and ultimately in themselves.

It makes them see their past as one wasteland of non-achievement and it makes them want to distance themselves from that wasteland. It makes them want to identify with that which is furthest removed from themselves; for instance, with other peoples' languages rather than their own. It makes them identify with that which is decadent and reactionary, all those forces which would stop their own springs of life. *It even plants serious doubts about the moral rightness of struggle.

Possibilities of triumph or victory are seen as remote, ridiculous dreams."

Ngugi Wa Thiong'o
Decolonising the Mind

Quote:

Now that is truth right there! Although this method has proven successful in the past, it is happening again. The melaninated inhabitors of Africa have been bombed quite some time ago, but the process is being carried out as we currently live and breathe.... in the region ofAmerica. The melaninated people of America have formed some concept of self/identity, but any conception of identity is seen as a threat from the point of the system because it is a proponent ofindividuality and that is a big part of truely knowing oneself. The thing about individuality in referenceto identity is that it can be very dynamic; it acknowledges the unique (noticethe base of unique, uni[one]) perspective but at the same time it avows the belonging to a greater whole (one of the One whole, this post even acknowledges that). Its so powerful because it is notthe compromise or conformity of self. Thebiggest oferrors plaguing black people today is allowing such mediums as television (its deceptiveillusion of reality)and print media to dictate who we are and what and who our culture consists of, essentially thinking for us and that's not dynamic at all, it is very static. Identity is an internal to external thing, not the reverse. That's a very detrimental notion. Until we know who we are by knowing the whole chronology of our ancestors and heritage, we won't be able to completely reverse it. No one can tell us the whole truth of who we are, but we can be guided in the right direction, we have been misguided all along...

Quote:

*Last but not least I would like to inquire about the specfic expression of "moral rightness of struggle". Is that inrelation to identity or something else in a more general sense of explanation?

girlfromthenc · (#11 (**permalink**))

Well i've always believed that in order to be 'African' one needs to belong to an African tribe/ethnic group. 'igbo' 'wolof' dinka', at least one! If someone CAN be an 'african' without a tribe than the word African has NOCULTURAL signifance to anything- the tribes give it this. Having the standard of belonging to an ethnic group is what keeps all the Whites, Asians, and Arabs who actually LIVE thoughoutAfrica (and are therefore really are 'african' geographically and sometimes actually speak the language, eat the food and know the culture)from being considered an indegenious African. If you lose the standard of being an 'ethnicity' than anybody of any race can be African.

Do you understand what I'm trying to relay?

This standard applies to any identity!

I've heard of manya people going to Native American reservations and being turned down! They didn't understand why that particular tribe didn't care how much "indian" bloodthey supposely hador how hightheir cheekbones were, or how "indian/silky'their hairwas suppose to be. If you weren't born in an Indian tribe be it Cherokee, sioux, etc you won't be considered Indian. Simply LOOKING kinda Indian wouldn't be enough. They demand papers!!!!

Other ethnicities might not go as far as demand papers, but they do however demand that at least your PARENTS be you are claiming to be. Hence, the Japanese don't have anybody claiming to be Japanese without 2 Japanese parents.

.